What Was Sméagol Like Before The Ring?
Explore the best of fantasy and sci-fi in depth, with analysis of the worlds of Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, The Witcher and more.
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38 Comments
Smeagol was clearly a theater actor. Performing whenever and wherever he could, to show off his one man show or should I say one hobbit show. He'd often switch between voices for each of his different characters, and he was quite good.
ok so basically Smeagol was already a nasty little creep, with murder and theft in his heart and thoughts. the Ring didn't put the evil into him, rather the Ring grabbed hold of the nasty side of Smeagol and amplified what was already there.
from nasty little creep, to even more nasty little psycopath.
If Melchor corrupted hobbits, would it be a goblin?
Remember, Sméagol killed his brother with barely a minute’s exposure to the ‘ring’. He’s a bad seed right from the start.
Who was Deéagol?
What if Gandalf took the Ring? Can't remember if there is a video on that already.
He had no purpose. No mission. No fellowship. Only the ring.
A thief and a murderer are not the same. Even for the "mean sort of thief". I think if Smeagol was a murderer a heart. He wouldn't have this internal fight. He wouldn't see Frodo as a good person who deserve to be protected and honor a promise. Sure as Hobbits goes, he was a mean one. But let's not downplay the power of the ring at that moment. It had waited 1500 years for that moment.
Perhaps the Ring, like Sauron himself, gradually looses power as it is "used". You know, like a battery running down. "Power" in Middle Earth it would seem is a finite thing. Sauron incorporates a part of his finite power into the making of the ring. The Ring is , in a sense, Sauron himself though no longer something he has total control over. Regaining the Ring means recharging his battery.
Kind of a jerk
Divide and conquer no ring needed
Was just visiting the area of Galway that inspired the name Gollum.
Smeagol and Deagol were stupid Harfoots,
Harfeet. Idk
The Ring acted on the simple minds of both Deagol and Smeagol in a similar manner to which it would later act on Boromir. The silent foe they both unwittingly faced in that moment cannot be underestimated.
I find it a bit hard to believe that anyone would remember so much about Smeagol 500 years later. It makes for a good narrative, but you wouldn't think Gandalf could find so much about him. I'd imagine that the hobbits back then would just think Smeagol just disappeared one day, and that they'd quickly forget him.
Of course there's always whatever Gandalf got out of Smeagol himself, but this doesn't sound like how Smeagol would tell the story.
I do agree with the analysis here, that Smeagol was already a thief, and had already thought about murder before the Ring found him. He was easy to corrupt because he was already corrupt.
Has anyone explained how Glamdring, Gandalf's sword, Sting, and Thorin's sword ended up in the troll cave?
I’ve always imagined Smeagol and his family as proto Brandibucks
Gollum’s family and the Brandybucks are collective clans: The leader of the Brandybucks is not a military chief, but the Master of Buckland. Sméagol’s grandmother ruling over all her descendants under one roof is the image of how Brandy Hall is organised
Also the Brandibucks are described by the rest of the Shire as “odd” or “strange” hobbits because of their love of water and boats. Deagol and Smeagol can swim and can go on boats
The Brandibucks are heavily intermixed with the Strong; and Gandalf says something about Smeagol being one of them
Also: thank you, Robert, for the great content
Deagol, the unappreciated ring bearer
I think we could diagnose Smeagol with dissociative identity disorder. The killing of his cousin being the critical traumatic event that caused his brain to create Gollum.
For years, I kept searching for a way of manifesting that actually made sense to me. Then I randomly found Vera Hart’s archetype quiz and filled it out out of curiosity. The result described me almost perfectly, and I’ve looked at manifesting completely differently ever since. I’d recommend it to anyone who feels like they’ve hit a wall.
I'd be curious to theorize if Deagol had willingly given the ring to Sméagol. Probably much would stay the same, the ring would still enslave Sméagol but his journey would not have started with murder. How much might that change?
There's the paradox. According to Tolkien's Catholic beliefs, we are each individually responsible for our intentions as well as our actions—or our failure to act. But if the One Ring is so powerful that literally no one could resist it—not Galadriel or Frodo or even Gandalf—then how could Sméagol be responsible for its influence over him? It doesn't just trap you through your weaknesses; it can even turn your virtues against you. Conceivably the only moral choice the Wise have available is to refuse to take possession of the Ring at all. But Bilbo didn't know the Ring was evil and it's for certain that Sméagol didn't.
For me the object lesson of many of Tolkien's magical objects is that we must all be wary of temptation, especially if it takes a pleasing shape. We are all capable of being corrupted.
Bildo Teabaggins
Smeagol?, why yes I remember him, why? He was a mean sort. Always sulking about.
Did you ever hear about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?
Sorry fam
wrong universum
It sounds like Smeagol was already a little tainted in his heart when the Ring fell into his and Deagol's possession. The Ring latched onto that darkness and urged him to follow through on his desires, perhaps thinking that it could manipulate him into taking it back towards Sauron/Mordor. The greed for it ended up causing Smeagol to instead go into hiding, wanting only to possess his "precious" and nothing more.
Thank you! I had responded to a video by another creator who used Smeagol/Gollum as an analogy for the Shadow in psychology. I did a mediocre job explaining how Smeagol's character in the LotR. Your video explained this perfectly. I wish I had seen it first.
Isn’t Bilbo a thief?
The manner in which one gains custody of the Ring matters. Smeagol achieved it through murder, while Bilbo cemented his ownership by showing the former pity.
FYI, given how Men (and, by likely extension, Smeagol's folk) in Middle Earth were, at the time, buried in barrows, "tunnelled into green mounds" almost certainly means digging up graves. It is not a flattering, innocent description.
5:00 It's simple, yet complex. I love Tolkien so much.
Such a spot-on analysis. Well done.
This is a neat little analysis. With the One Ring usually being prized more for its power, it is easy to lose sight of the power it has to affect people's base personality. When people use it, it might turn a mean tinpot tyrant into a truly malicious being. It doesn't make someone worse than their base character might already be, even if they manage to hide the shadows of their hearts.
I like to think that Smeagol's grandmother had a hand in encouraging her folk to start giving presents on their birthdays rather than receiving them, after seeing what greed for a birthday-present did to her grandson.
His grandmother was a matriarch. Perhaps he grew up without parents and was spoiled? Or had aristocratic tendencies?
It's amazing how much Gandalf could get out of him, when Aragorn said he himself didn't hear much.
If you want the truth, I know the books. I know the movies about him. and here is what I know that his real name is Smigel and he was one of the river folk also known as a hobbit you do remember what was said from him that Billbo Baggins said that Gandolf should go and check out the under the hills or cross the water. That is what he told Gandolf about that when he met him years that are on because he knew of him when he was like young younger, so there’s other regions of the Shire the reason why I know that the Shire is widely accepted being a part of the West Farley woods, and and one of his parents was related to Smigel, and thus began the idea of this fallout with him and his cousin. Now the only explanation I could come up with is this.
The ring of power made him do it when he saw the ring that caught his interest and yeah, yes he was some what has thieving and deceiving the ring no power saw that in him that he tempted murder for that ring that is the truth of it and he was in fact and the ring of power turn him into a gangly sickly kind of a person and creature hence the name as Gollum of that helps you out so much simple form maybe you can use this comment to further this video want go more in depth on it feel free
But Smigel and his cousin Diguel I am not sure if this is how you spell it, but they are cousins and now that Smigel is, and she distant cousin from Abelia Baggins so this guy said that is right you wanna do a new video about this about how they are distant cousins from Bilbo Baggins that’s why they know one another as relations, but as for now you’re gonna cover this in a video for free if you wanna approve to us being this
“In depth geek”
And it was that ring of power, saw the lust and the greed in the heart of Smigel, that’s what caused it to happen in the first place and yes, he was greedy and roasted for that ring of power in the first place it changed him from being a hobbit full and of life to simply gangly person creature, he still has the attributes as Smigel and Gollum, but it turns out that he loves himself and at the same time he hates himself for doing what he did to his cousin Digol I hope that it helps you out and if you want to do a video on this, go ahead because Smigel was a hobbit before all this is one of the river folk hobbit, but just outside of the Shire with that the Shire is described according to the book itself as the hobbit was this
“A habit, the little people, also known as the shire folk and they can hear whether their ears of they are a person they can hear them coming a mile off or describes a hobbit under your wet hole under the hills and cross the waters the rivers and good to earth being a hobbit is those are them that take liking to smoking pipe weed. I have hair on the feet as for souls without shoes and they are particularly quite found of food and they keep to them selves, kind, and respectful to others that is bigger than them childlike they are is that describes a hobbit”
But like I said, if you want to read this and maybe you can do a video going in depth about it then do it it was up to you. I am giving you the idea for a video and also you can do it if you want the idea and not just that I am suggesting a video for you to do a full line in depth about me in the timeline of how it all happened between Bilbo Baggins and lead to his unfortunate accidental death so yeah, that was just my idea in a suggestion for a video it would help to know more about what we know here
I think Smeagol was selfish because as you say birthdays were swapped around. They gave OTHERS gifts, but Smeagol wanted Deagol to give him the ring for his birthday
How did Gandalf uncover Smeagol's name and origin?