Denethor Was Right About More Than You Think
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41 Comments
Denethor's use of his Palantir makes me wonder if there's any evidence of him communicating with Saruman through Orthanc's seeing stone.
Denethor is the reason why I consider PJ overrated.
What if…Denethor passed away before Boromir left for Rivendell? Boromir as Steward, and his much-loved brother Faramir coming back from Rivendell and vouching for Gandalf's veracity and wisdom?
Kind of disappointed you didn’t mention the right to use the palantir giving denethor additional resistance vs Sauron. Not only was he strong willed, but as steward the palantir worked to his advantage. Sauron made use of the palantir despite it working against him as an interloper – a testament to his sheer power.
Denethor also saw Faramir falling in to shadow from his wounds.
Psychiatrist: don’t worry plastic Denethor isn’t real, he can’t hurt you
Plastic Denethor:
Anyone else mark out when John Noble popped up in season 2 of Severance? So many neat cameos, his was my favorite.
Imagine a Gondor where Aragorn and Denathor always knew each other, Aragorn was the crowned prince and then king, and the two were always working selflessly for the betterment of Gondor
So the palantir is just modern social media controlled by evil powers 😅 ?
What did did Denethor claim that proved to be correct? This is in Deep Geek. Let's look into it
Of all the characters that made it into the movies, Denethor is by far portrayed the worst.
i am on the 2nd read of this master piece and just read the passage where denethor commited suicide. Truely a trobled man, complex and great analogy for many people during the 2nd ww in britian i guess.
He foresaw everything but the miracles performed by Eru. Without divine intervention Gondor would surely have fallen.
Watching Return of the King for the first time with my daughter last night. I was trying to explain to her how falling into despaiir instead of humility and understanding is a path to destruction.
Denethor was done dirty in the movie, and it`s a bloody shame.
John Noble would have been well able to portrait the "real" Denethor too, instead of the tomato munching impostor.
You left out a couple of things here that are vitally important:
(1) As awesome as Denethor deemed himself – apparently it NEVER occurred to him to consider that he was being manipulated via the information that Sauron allowed him to see via the Palantiri; Sauron played Denethor like a frickin' Piano!
(2) If Denethor knows so frickin' much – he would understand that Gandalf's work and mission – is of divine nature since the Valar sent him to Middle Earth. Which means the Valar are attempting to aid him. But noooooooo! Denethor can't get out of his own way to accept the help of a very powerful and capable Istari…
He knew too much, couldn't handle it. Like me on a Monday.
Something i never hear people acknowledge with Denethor – at the depths of his despair, he never considered surrender to Sauron. Selling his people into slavery was never an option.
So Denethor was psyoped by Sauron's algorithm into doomscrolling himself to death.
Dear Robert,
With your left hand, you would enlarge our learning, and with your right, you would supplant our ignorance with wisdom.
For all your subtleties, you have also wisdom.
Thank you.
I’m glad you brought up that Denethor was right about Aragorn having no true claim to the throne of Gondor. It’s something that always annoys me in the books that they act like Aragorn’s claim is beyond question. It’s only once Faramir, the ruling steward, declares Aragorn king that his claim has any serious validity.
The tomato council has gotten to him…
Before watching:
He was defeatist when the wisest people at the time determined there was only one way to succeed, and he was never informed about that plan, or even the facts that made it possible.
I love the movies, but one thing I really wish is that they would have shown Denethor using a palantir. It would have tied up his story so nicely and people would understand more how he became the person that went insane. As it stands it just looks like a man who went insane with grief, also being a very flawed man from before. Just showing the palantir for a few second would do the trick.
Thought this was going to be a video absolutely DRAGGING Faramir
Denethor was done dirty in the movies. He wasn't just an insane person.
He was an extraordinary, extremely intelligent, capable leader who did everything he could to save his kingdom. All he lacked was a capacity to hope and was overcome by despair.
As much as I love John Noble's performance in the Peter Jackson films, I do prefer the book version. Denethor is a tragic figure dragged down into despair after years of struggling against a greater force rather than just a bitter old man.
Amazing how Denethor appears so little in the book, but makes such a great impression on the reader.
Thank you for this video, Robert. Denethor is made out to be a gibbering buffoon in the movies, who Gandalf "whacks" on the head with his staff to get him to shut up. Horrible. He was the greatest man in the world at the time, bar Aragorn.
While I understand that Denethor would have been a very hard character to adapt, and I genuinely think John Noble was fantastic in the films, I think it is sad that he was portrayed as so… callous. The tomatoes scene is honestly gorgeous, heartbreaking, and done to perfection, but I do feel sorry for book Denethor. Tolkien's point was never supposed to be (in my opinion) that he was a bad steward or father, but that even the noblest can be brought low by pride and by despair.
He was a lot better than I with tomatoes… He didn't projectile vomit.
7:40 is one of the most concise ways to describe our current political and culture wars.
Denethor was Steward for a reason..He wasn't at all incompetent in the books like they potray Him in the movies.
Holy moly, love your videos but audio balance was brutal on this one.
Denethor was just shy of correct, the realms of men couldn't win and the battle at the black gate was basically suicidal.
His calculations and Sauron's were both more or less correct except for the grain of sand in the gears that was the hobbits.
Denethor had the blood of Numenor in his veins, he had the ability to use the Palantir of Minas Tirith, however, he could not command it. Use of the Palantir required great effort and will to use and it took a great toll on Denethor's mind. So while Denethor could use the Planatir, Sauron could guide Denethor's thoughts, show him inevitable defeat, and fill him with despair.
In spite of eventually defying his lord to save Faramir, I always thought that Pippin had a rare sense of both Denethor's greatness as well as his terrible burden. It is a mark of Tolkien's unmatched storytelling that Pippin maintained his service and friendship to the protectors of Gondor through Faramir and Aragorn.
Very good video. I also feel Denethor could not bear the death of his deeply loved son Boromir. It took too much out of him, and confronting Sauron in the Palantiri after his loss made him highly susceptible to Sauron’s influence.
Demethor was right to despair. If the One Ring wasn’t destroyed, the army of Mordor would have destroyed Gondor. He knew the chance of destroying it was almost impossible. A truly tragic figure.
Wow. That tomato 🍅 line absolutely killed me. Best joke you’ve ever made for my money 🙏 hilarious.
His only failure was that, upon glimpsing the growing strength of his enemy, he didn't say, "Nah, I'd win."